Bob Odenkirk & Peter Gould, co-creator, on the bridge between the Prequel series and ‘Breaking Bad’ – Deadline


SPOILER ALERT: This interview contains details on the You better call Saul season 5 finale “Something Unforgiveable” on AMC.

Better Call Saul Season 5 finale Michael Mando

Michael Mando as Nacho Varga in the finale of season 5 of Better Call Saul

Saul Goodman / Jimmy McGill having previously suffered and survived the worst hike – a mega-mile with Mike Ehrmantraut across the desert with drug lord bail bond money Lalo Salamanca – the cliffhanger tonight depended heavily part of the death or not of the latter.

With Ehrmantraut sending armed men to kill Lalo in his Mexican complex, the world should be comfortable. Nacho Varga was made an accomplice in the planned murder, opening the door to Lalo’s assassins, however, Lalo took them all out through a hidden tunnel that gave him the upper hand. In the last shot, we see Lalo crossing his yard, but will he meet Nacho? Who kills who? Neither takes the ultimate leap to Breaking Bad, and so we’re going to roll this fight into what should be the sixth and final season of You better call Saul to see who wins. Meanwhile, Saul and Kim take a romantic refuge in a hidden hotel after Lalo’s high-pressure visit last week. The couple’s set-up before next season: Kim wants to bring his despicable mentor Howard Hamlin down … to an embarrassing level.

Bob Odenkirk Launches Production Company with First Agreement on Sony Pictures TV

Here’s our post mortem conversation with Saul himself, Bob Odenkirk and You better call Saul co-creator Peter Gould.

Kim wants to defeat Howard, and that shakes Saul a little. Why that, especially after his conflict of interest in the Mesa Verde affair?

BOB ODENKIRK: You have to start with the fact that Jimmy is in a vulnerable place. He is in a weak, uncertain and frightened place inside. He just came out of the desert, just came out of this lingering terror of PTSD in him, including physical weakness after being there and suffering for a few days. Then she leaves on that tear where she imagines herself doing difficult nasty things to Howard, who was Jimmy’s enemy; something Jimmy chose in himself to make Howard representative of everything he dislikes. And it goes further than it wants, and much further, and it continues. Right now, he has lost his thirst for blood for shenanigans and then he suggests, that this may be too much what we are talking about. The answer he gets is some kind of repression, and he cannot say whether it is serious or not. It actually seems quite serious.

I think it all goes hand in hand with the fact that we really don’t know Kim. She has been a kind of question mark that has gotten bigger and more mysterious this season than every season. Who exactly is she? What did he do? And how is she more comfortable letting her very rigid ethical standards fall apart and fly away from time to time? She is really the mystery of the show now. I think Jimmy became Saul, it was a wonderful trip. The question now is, who is Kim?

You better call Saul


DEADLINE: Since Kim is not in Breaking Bad, we assumed that there is never happiness for her, nor for Kim and Jimmy as a couple. Is this a fair assumption? Or do you think things will not be as bad as we expect?

ODENKIRK: I’m on your side. I’m completely on your side. I don’t see how they could stay together. It could happen, and if someone can understand it, these writers can. But, I don’t know, man, I don’t see it. Saul had a carefree energy in him breaking Bad; a loner who didn’t have to worry about anyone else. I don’t see how he has this energy and always has Kim in his life, he takes risks like working with Walter White.

DEADLINE: Before tonight’s episode, I really thought Kim was going to die. Peter, is there a world in the future post-Saul / Gene where she could appear at Cinnabon, the light at the end of her tunnel?

Better Call Saul Season 5


PETER GOULD: Let’s talk about Saul Goodman for a moment. He did terrible things. He’s an accessory for horrible, horrible things, not just in the Walter White, but all the other things he did. I feel like he has a karmic burden. Does this guy win a happy ending? One of the reasons we love television, movies and books is that we are trying to understand the role of justice in the universe. It’s the only thing that will attract an audience, and it will connect me to a story, is that injustice is committed, and there are many types of injustices. So, I think that’s a big question. Besides what could happen, what does this guy deserve? Does he get what he deserves? Does it get more than it deserves? Does it have less than it deserves? And these are big questions. So at some point Kim and Jimmy – are they good for each other? There are many destinies you could have. There are many bad things that could happen to people in their lifetime. What’s going to happen? There is a universe of possibility. Sometimes the most satisfying thing for me in the audience isn’t necessarily what will make the character happy.

DEADLINE: Do you think Kim and Saul will accuse Howard of bribing witnesses using Lalo’s money?

ODENKIRK: This whole speech is just B.S. under the covers. As for Jimmy, they’re just brainstorming. They are not really serious. So, I don’t know what the logistics of executing any of these plans are.

Peter Gould & Vince Gilligan Better Call Saul Season 5 Finale interview

EP Peter Gould and EP Vince Gilligan

DEADLINE: Is next season definitely the last, or do you think you could write more?

GOULD: My fervent hope is that we can stick to the landing as Vince (Gilligan) led us to stick to the landing. breaking Bad. I think a really good story usually comes to an end, and that’s the thing you remember. It’s like, we set our marker, we planted our flag this season 6, when we can turn it, it’s the last season, and it’s going to be a big season, and it’s going to be more episodes than we usually do. It’s going to be 13. We’ve never done 13 episodes of You better call Saul in a season, never. It’s going to be huge and it’s going to be resolved.

DEADLINE: And now for the money question: how close are you going to be to Breaking Bad next season, and can we see Walter White and Jesse again?

breaking Bad


GOULD: It’s a big question. I do not know. At the moment, I don’t have the answer to that. I would say, El Camino took some of the pressure off. I loved what Vince did with this movie, and I felt that the scene he had with Walt and Jesse was such a perfect farewell to these characters or a postscript to these two characters. You know, we’ll just have to see if it ends up being part of our history.

The thing we’re focusing on is, what’s the story we’re telling? The story we tell is of Jimmy McGill and Kim Wexler and Mike Ehrmantraut and Gustavo Fring, and if having Walt and Jesse turns out to be two that could be essential to the story then, absolutely, we would love to have them. Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul are two of the busiest guys in the entertainment business – it’s the other imponderable, whether they are able to do it or they want to.

DEADLINE: Bob, as part of your new contract with Sony TV, are you looking to find Peter and Vince on another completely different series?

ODENKIRK: No, not currently. I would love to do it and go to them as partners if I had a project that suited them.

DEADLINE: What about an alarm clock from Mr. Show?

ODENKIRK: David Cross and I would like to do more together. We can’t use the name without two big companies (Editor’s Note: HBO and Universal) coming up with certain terms. You cannot use this name again. And you have to get all of the lawyers from both companies to sign and that will never happen. But I think we will work together again.

The truth is [in regards to projects in development under new Sony deal] I’ve been working on it for months. We have a fairly large drama series, a semi-sci-fi series and a bunch of little comedies.

DEADLINE: Peter, on breaking Bad or You better call Saul universe continues to expand after you finish next season? Will Kim Wexler have her own show? Or will we return to the early days of the Ehrmantraut cops in Philadelphia?

GOULD: I will never say never, but personally, I feel like once we finish these last 13 games, I will at least want to try something else, try another show; something outside of this universe. I work in the Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul universe since 2007, and it’s been a long time. I think that working on something else would allow me to bring something new, if there is this opportunity. That said, I work with a ton of bright and talented people, and you never say never, for sure. Personally, I would be fascinated to see each of these characters supporting their own show. I mean, Gustavo Fring – I’m fascinated to know where he came from and how he became the man he is. I’m fascinated by it. And then, likewise, Mike Ehrmantraut and Kim Wexler.


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